Fresh Air

Writer, activist and face of the women’s liberation movement Gloria Steinem died Wednesday at age 92. She spoke with Terry Gross several times over four decades, this remembrance pulls from three of those conversations: In 2015, Steinem talked about her unconventional childhood on the road with her parents, “My memory is that I learned how to read from ketchup bottles and labels and billboards along the highway,” she said. Steinem was a founding editor of Ms. magazine, the first feminist publication of its kind. In 1987, she spoke about the founding of the magazine and her early reporting. And in 1992, they discussed aging as she faced her golden years. You can find more Steinem tape in our archive. 


Also, John Powers reviews the new film Coyote vs. Acme.  which he calls a spoof of the classic legal thriller, like The Verdict or Erin Brockovich — but steeped in the surreal anarchy of Looney Tunes.

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Paul Greengrass’ new film, The Uprising, stars Andrew Garfield as a 14th-century peasant who, in the wake of the Plague, leads a revolt against the king. It's a history Greengrass grew up learning, and now sees parallels with Covid and Jan 6th. “People were left numb, and then this gathering rage …defenseless, and then suddenly you had this enormous rebellion,” he tells Tonya Mosley. Greengrass also reflects on his movie United 93, 25 years after the Sept. 11 attacks.

Film critic Justin Chang reviews the new drama Filipiñana. 


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Tech giants like Google and Microsoft have been competing for years to get their devices, software and AI into public schools, even offering free training programs for teachers and students. These brands are helping shape what and how children learn. NYT reporter Natasha Singer says, “Some teachers are using AI to generate their lesson plans and assignments and their quizzes, and then kids are using AI to do them and then teachers are using AI to grade them. So we just have bots talking to bots. Is that what we want education to look like?”

Singer is the author of Coding Kids: Big Tech’s Battle to Remake Public Schools. She spoke with Terry Gross. 

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Coltrane was one of the most influential musicians in the history of jazz, from his beautiful ballads, to his more spiritual music, and his role in the forefront of free jazz. September 23 marks 100 years since his birth. We speak with his son Ravi Coltrane, who is a highly regarded tenor saxophonist—the same instrument his father played. Growing up, he was just known as Ravi, "But as soon as I picked up the saxophone I was suddenly John Coltrane's son,” he tells Terry Gross. Ravi edited a new book of photographs of his father.

Later we’ll hear drummer Elvin Jones describe performing and recording with John Coltrane, in a 1998 interview from our archive.


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Atlantic journalist Annie Lowrey explores the administrative burdens people face applying for government benefits like unemployment and food assistance. It's not just about wasted time: "When the government treats us like this, we don't trust it," she says. She spoke with Tonya Mosley about her book, The Time Tax: How the Government Wastes Our Time—and How to Fix It.


Ken Tucker reviews a new album by the trio The Womack Sisters, nieces of R&B great Bobby Womack.

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Jason Segel returns to talk with Terry Gross about his Emmy-nominated series Shrinking, in which he plays a therapist who suffered a nervous breakdown in the wake of his wife’s death. Segel opens up about his own therapy and acting opposite Harrison Ford. 

Also, Lisa Kudrow talks about her Emmy-nominated series The Comeback. She plays an actress who is delusional about her career and desperate to be onscreen. Kudrow spoke with Tonya Mosley about shifts in Hollywood, Friends, and what she was like when she was a young girl. 

Book critic Maureen Corrigan recommends three new suspense novels. 


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Actor Tim Curry, best-known for playing mad scientist Dr. Frank-N-Furter in The Rocky Horror Picture Show, died this week at age 80. He spoke with Terry Gross in 2005 about finding the character’s look and voice. 

Also, actor Rhea Seehorn has been nominated for an Emmy for her leading role in the sci-fi series Pluribus. She spoke with Terry about that series and Better Call Saul. 


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In his Prime Video series, Bait, Riz Ahmed plays an actor auditioning to be the next James Bond. Ahmed says Bond is a "symbol of aspiration, this unattainable kind of self" his character is pursuing. He’s nominated for an Emmy for his role in the series. Ahmed spoke with Tonya Mosley about being his own worst critic, why he connected to Hamlet, and his early days as an MC on pirate radio. 


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The beloved country superstar died Tuesday at age 80. Parton spoke with Terry Gross in 2001 about growing up in rural poverty with 11 siblings, leaving for Nashville to become a star, and coming up with her signature look. "I've always believed that a part of my magic, if there was any, was the fact that I look so artificial — but I am so totally real," she said. 

Also, jazz critic Martin Johnson reviews jazz singer Cécile McLorin Salvant’s new album, With Every Breath I Take, which he calls her most daring yet. Support public media with NPR+ and enjoy perks for over 25 podcasts like this one. This show’s perks include bonus episodes and curated playlists of archive interviews. Learn more at plus.npr.org.

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The beloved country superstar died Tuesday at age 80. Parton spoke with Terry Gross in 2001 about growing up in rural poverty with 11 siblings, leaving for Nashville to become a star, and coming up with her signature look. "I've always believed that a part of my magic, if there was any, was the fact that I look so artificial — but I am so totally real," she said. 

Also, jazz critic Martin Johnson reviews jazz singer Cécile McLorin Salvant’s new album, With Every Breath I Take, which he calls her most daring yet. Support public media with NPR+ and enjoy perks for over 25 podcasts like this one. This show’s perks include bonus episodes and curated playlists of archive interviews. Learn more at plus.npr.org.

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National security writer Joby Warrick tells the story of “Carlos the Jackal,” the world’s most notorious terrorist of the ‘70s and ‘80s. He became so famous for his brazen attacks and playboy lifestyle that, once, when he was releasing hostages from a hijacked airplane, several asked him for autographs. Warrick’s book is The Jackal. He spoke with Dave Davies. 

Also, Maureen Corrigan reviews three suspense novels: The Intrigue, by Silvia Moreno-Garcia, Under the Falls, by Richard Russo, or The Blue Flame, by George Pelecanos.

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National security writer Joby Warrick tells the story of “Carlos the Jackal,” the world’s most notorious terrorist of the ‘70s and ‘80s. He became so famous for his brazen attacks and playboy lifestyle that, once, when he was releasing hostages from a hijacked airplane, several asked him for autographs. Warrick’s book is The Jackal. He spoke with Dave Davies. 

Also, Maureen Corrigan reviews three suspense novels: The Intrigue, by Silvia Moreno-Garcia, Under the Falls, by Richard Russo, or The Blue Flame, by George Pelecanos.

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Lisa Kudrow is up for two Emmys for the final season of The Comeback, about an actress who will endure almost anything to keep working. She spoke with Tonya Mosley about her character’s delusion and how the show has captured different eras of Hollywood. Kudrow also talks about a life-changing trip to Belarus, being a straight-laced girl, and watching Friends after her co-star Matthew Perry’s death. 

Also, critic-at-large John Powers reviews the Paramount+ series Diarra from Detroit.

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Lisa Kudrow is up for two Emmys for the final season of The Comeback, about an actress who will endure almost anything to keep working. She spoke with Tonya Mosley about her character’s delusion and how the show has captured different eras of Hollywood. Kudrow also talks about a life-changing trip to Belarus, being a straight-laced girl, and watching Friends after her co-star Matthew Perry’s death. 

Also, critic-at-large John Powers reviews the Paramount+ series Diarra from Detroit.

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Colman Domingo is nominated for two Emmy Awards this year, for two very different roles: in the Netflix comedy The Four Seasons and in the final season of HBO's Euphoria. He spoke with Tonya Mosley about the transition from dramatic roles to comedy, and guest hosting Jimmy Kimmel Live! for a week. 

Award-winning writer Leïla Slimani grew up in Morocco, where women were second-class citizens, but inside her home and with her family, she was free to speak her mind. Her mother, a doctor, pushed her to go to France to study. Slimani spoke with Terry Gross about her trilogy of novels inspired by her own French-Moroccan roots.

Rock critic Ken Tucker looks back on the soundtrack of the 1976 film Sparkle, sung by Aretha Franklin. 

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Colman Domingo is nominated for two Emmy Awards this year, for two very different roles: in the Netflix comedy The Four Seasons and in the final season of HBO's Euphoria. He spoke with Tonya Mosley about the transition from dramatic roles to comedy, and guest hosting Jimmy Kimmel Live! for a week. 

Award-winning writer Leïla Slimani grew up in Morocco, where women were second-class citizens, but inside her home and with her family, she was free to speak her mind. Her mother, a doctor, pushed her to go to France to study. Slimani spoke with Terry Gross about her trilogy of novels inspired by her own French-Moroccan roots.

Rock critic Ken Tucker looks back on the soundtrack of the 1976 film Sparkle, sung by Aretha Franklin. 

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The Dog Stars, directed by Ridley Scott and starring Josh Brolin and Jacob Elordi, is about two men who become unlikely compatriots when a pandemic wipes out much of the country's population. Adventure writer Peter Heller spoke with Dave Davies in 2012 about the book, which draws on his own survival skills. 

Also, we remember pioneering rock critic Dave Marsh. He was an early champion and biographer of Bruce Springsteen, and helped launch the rock magazine Creem before winding up at Rolling Stone. He died August 14 at age 79. 

Justin Chang reviews the new film Dreams in Nightmares. 

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The Dog Stars, directed by Ridley Scott and starring Josh Brolin and Jacob Elordi, is about two men who become unlikely compatriots when a pandemic wipes out much of the country's population. Adventure writer Peter Heller spoke with Dave Davies in 2012 about the book, which draws on his own survival skills. 

Also, we remember pioneering rock critic Dave Marsh. He was an early champion and biographer of Bruce Springsteen, and helped launch the rock magazine Creem before winding up at Rolling Stone. He died August 14 at age 79. 

Justin Chang reviews the new film Dreams in Nightmares. 

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Two weeks after being nominated for an Emmy for his leading role in Wonder Man, Yahya Abdul-Mateen II found out that the series had been cancelled. He says Marvel could do more to support Black-led projects. Abdul-Mateen spoke with co-host Tonya Mosley about how he stumbled into acting, padding his early resumé, and working through his stutter. 

Also, film critic Justin Chang reviews Teenage Death and Sex at Camp Miasma. 

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Two weeks after being nominated for an Emmy for his leading role in Wonder Man, Yahya Abdul-Mateen II found out that the series had been cancelled. He says Marvel could do more to support Black-led projects. Abdul-Mateen spoke with co-host Tonya Mosley about how he stumbled into acting, padding his early resumé, and working through his stutter. 

Also, film critic Justin Chang reviews Teenage Death and Sex at Camp Miasma. 

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Defense analyst Stacie Pettyjohn says while the U.S. military is facing long-range missile shortages, prolonged deployments, and vacated regional bases, Iran is building cheaper weapons quickly. She tells Dave Davies the U.S. military is scrambling to adjust to innovations in modern warfare. 

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Defense analyst Stacie Pettyjohn says while the U.S. military is facing long-range missile shortages, prolonged deployments, and vacated regional bases, Iran is building cheaper weapons quickly. She tells Dave Davies the U.S. military is scrambling to adjust to innovations in modern warfare. 

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Segel returns to talk with Terry Gross about his Emmy-nominated series Shrinking, in which he plays a therapist who suffered a nervous breakdown in the wake of his wife’s death. Segel opens up about his own therapy, acting opposite Harrison Ford, and overcoming writer's block. He thinks of his vulnerability as a super power. "I'm kind of devoid of pride or shame about the dirty underneath. I'll say the stuff that a lot of people are trying to hide." Segel wrote and starred in the hit comedy film Forgetting Sarah Marshall, and played David Foster Wallace in The End of the Tour. 

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Segel returns to talk with Terry Gross about his Emmy-nominated series Shrinking, in which he plays a therapist who suffered a nervous breakdown in the wake of his wife’s death. Segel opens up about his own therapy, acting opposite Harrison Ford, and overcoming writer's block. He thinks of his vulnerability as a super power. "I'm kind of devoid of pride or shame about the dirty underneath. I'll say the stuff that a lot of people are trying to hide." Segel wrote and starred in the hit comedy film Forgetting Sarah Marshall, and played David Foster Wallace in The End of the Tour. 

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When you’re dieting to lose weight, human evolution is often working against you. We’ll talk about why with Daniel Lieberman, author of Fed Up and founder of Harvard’s Department of Evolutionary Biology.  He spoke with Terry Gross about diets he’s tested, and the often contradictory information about what’s healthy to eat and what’s not.

Also, book critic Maureen Corrigan reviews Etna, a novel that looks at war through the narration of a dog. 

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When you’re dieting to lose weight, human evolution is often working against you. We’ll talk about why with Daniel Lieberman, author of Fed Up and founder of Harvard’s Department of Evolutionary Biology.  He spoke with Terry Gross about diets he’s tested, and the often contradictory information about what’s healthy to eat and what’s not.

Also, book critic Maureen Corrigan reviews Etna, a novel that looks at war through the narration of a dog. 

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Spider-Man: Brand New Day continues to break box office records, after having the biggest U.S. opening weekend in history. Tonya Mosley talks with the film’s director, Destin Daniel Cretton. Long before Marvel, he worked in a group home for at-risk teens. He says it's an experience that shaped everything he's made since then, and became the movie Short Term 12.

Also, we hear from Harriet Clark. She was a baby when her mother was a getaway driver of a robbery of a Brink’s truck in 1981. The robbers were members of a radical offshoot of the Weather Underground and the Black Panthers. For 37 years, Clark spent Saturdays visiting her mother in prison. “She figured out how to mother me in some of the most difficult conditions possible,” Clark tells Terry Gross. Her novel, The Hill, draws on her experience visiting her mother in prison. 

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Spider-Man: Brand New Day continues to break box office records, after having the biggest U.S. opening weekend in history. Tonya Mosley talks with the film’s director, Destin Daniel Cretton. Long before Marvel, he worked in a group home for at-risk teens. He says it's an experience that shaped everything he's made since then, and became the movie Short Term 12.

Also, we hear from Harriet Clark. She was a baby when her mother was a getaway driver of a robbery of a Brink’s truck in 1981. The robbers were members of a radical offshoot of the Weather Underground and the Black Panthers. For 37 years, Clark spent Saturdays visiting her mother in prison. “She figured out how to mother me in some of the most difficult conditions possible,” Clark tells Terry Gross. Her novel, The Hill, draws on her experience visiting her mother in prison. 

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Poet and writer Clint Smith says we are taught to think of slavery as something that happened a long, long time ago. But then he learned that his grandfather's grandfather had been enslaved. “This person who was so central to my life and my own identity is someone who was only a generation or two removed from a family member who had been born into slavery," he tells Terry Gross. Smith is the author of the bestselling book How the Word Is Passed, about distortions in how the history of slavery was taught to him and other children -- and the ways many Americans deceive themselves about that history. He's also the author of the collection of poetry called Above Ground.

Also, critic at large John Powers reviews the new TV series Lanterns. 



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Poet and writer Clint Smith says we are taught to think of slavery as something that happened a long, long time ago. But then he learned that his grandfather's grandfather had been enslaved. “This person who was so central to my life and my own identity is someone who was only a generation or two removed from a family member who had been born into slavery," he tells Terry Gross. Smith is the author of the bestselling book How the Word Is Passed, about distortions in how the history of slavery was taught to him and other children -- and the ways many Americans deceive themselves about that history. He's also the author of the collection of poetry called Above Ground.

Also, critic at large John Powers reviews the new TV series Lanterns. 



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Colman Domingo is nominated for two Emmy Awards for two very different performances — in the Netflix comedy The Four Seasons and in HBO's Euphoria. "I can go very deep with my characters," he tells co-host Tonya Mosley. He talks about doing comedy with masters like Tina Fey, filling in for Jimmy Kimmel, why he loves being in his 50s. 

Also, Lloyd Schwartz reviews a remastered album of Handel arias by Lorraine Hunt Lieberson. 


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Colman Domingo is nominated for two Emmy Awards for two very different performances — in the Netflix comedy The Four Seasons and in HBO's Euphoria. "I can go very deep with my characters," he tells co-host Tonya Mosley. He talks about doing comedy with masters like Tina Fey, filling in for Jimmy Kimmel, why he loves being in his 50s. 

Also, Lloyd Schwartz reviews a remastered album of Handel arias by Lorraine Hunt Lieberson. 


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China produces at least 70% of the world’s drones, electric vehicles, lithium-ion batteries and solar cells. And with the U.S. stockpile of munitions diminished from the Iran war, would the U.S. have what it needs to defend Taiwan if China invaded? Terry Gross talks with New Yorker staff writer Evan Osnos about his latest story, “The Future Made in China.” “The irony here is that we are in some ways beholden right now to the Chinese factory in order to produce the munitions that we need to defend American interests from China. That’s the exquisite problem that we've found ourselves in,” Osnos says. 


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China produces at least 70% of the world’s drones, electric vehicles, lithium-ion batteries and solar cells. And with the U.S. stockpile of munitions diminished from the Iran war, would the U.S. have what it needs to defend Taiwan if China invaded? Terry Gross talks with New Yorker staff writer Evan Osnos about his latest story, “The Future Made in China.” “The irony here is that we are in some ways beholden right now to the Chinese factory in order to produce the munitions that we need to defend American interests from China. That’s the exquisite problem that we've found ourselves in,” Osnos says. 


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Cretton grew up in Hawaii, and says movies expanded his perspective: “That is how I traveled. That is how I was exposed to other cultures. That's how I understand how kids grew up in high school on the mainland,” he tells co-host Tonya Mosley. He explains how his job at a group home for at-risk teens inspired his film Short Term 12, how he relates to Peter Parker’s loneliness, and how his difficult relationship with his father helps him with directing.


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Cretton grew up in Hawaii, and says movies expanded his perspective: “That is how I traveled. That is how I was exposed to other cultures. That's how I understand how kids grew up in high school on the mainland,” he tells co-host Tonya Mosley. He explains how his job at a group home for at-risk teens inspired his film Short Term 12, how he relates to Peter Parker’s loneliness, and how his difficult relationship with his father helps him with directing.


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Journalist Gil Durán argues that a small circle of Silicon Valley billionaires and venture capitalists have concluded that democracy is in their way — and that they should be governing in its place. Durán traces their fringe ideologies from blogs, manifestos and private talks straight to the White House. “The weird stuff these guys say in their blogs or in their speeches is not just eccentric fluff. Because they have so much money, they can turn these weird ideas into policy and cause tremendous damage.” His book is The Nerd Reich. 

Also, Ken Tucker has a 50th anniversary appreciation of the Sparkle soundtrack. Loosely based on the girl group The Supremes, the 1976 film starred Aretha Franklin and the music was written and produced by Curtis Mayfield. 

In the audio of this story, we incorrectly say the theme music of the movie Shaft was by Curtis Mayfield. It was by Isaac Hayes.

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Journalist Gil Durán argues that a small circle of Silicon Valley billionaires and venture capitalists have concluded that democracy is in their way — and that they should be governing in its place. Durán traces their fringe ideologies from blogs, manifestos and private talks straight to the White House. “The weird stuff these guys say in their blogs or in their speeches is not just eccentric fluff. Because they have so much money, they can turn these weird ideas into policy and cause tremendous damage.” His book is The Nerd Reich. 

Also, Ken Tucker has a 50th anniversary appreciation of the Sparkle soundtrack. Loosely based on the girl group The Supremes, the 1976 film starred Aretha Franklin and the music was written and produced by Curtis Mayfield. 

In the audio of this story, we incorrectly say the theme music of the movie Shaft was by Curtis Mayfield. It was by Isaac Hayes.

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Seven years ago, New Yorker staff writer Jia Tolentino coined the term “Instagram Face.” Now we talk about how current beauty standards are changing our relationship to reality. “It seems more explicitly anti-human right now than ever before,” she tells Tonya Mosley. “There seems to be something that’s dove-tailing with the age of AI.” 

Also, we hear from Lee Sung Jin, creator of the Netflix series Beef. The second season is a story about class and blackmail at an exclusive country club. He talks about how he has pulled ideas from his own life, and his experience working in writers rooms as the only Asian person. 

Film critic Justin Chang reviews the new erotic comedy I Want Your Sex, starring Olivia Wilde.


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Seven years ago, New Yorker staff writer Jia Tolentino coined the term “Instagram Face.” Now we talk about how current beauty standards are changing our relationship to reality. “It seems more explicitly anti-human right now than ever before,” she tells Tonya Mosley. “There seems to be something that’s dove-tailing with the age of AI.” 

Also, we hear from Lee Sung Jin, creator of the Netflix series Beef. The second season is a story about class and blackmail at an exclusive country club. He talks about how he has pulled ideas from his own life, and his experience working in writers rooms as the only Asian person. 

Film critic Justin Chang reviews the new erotic comedy I Want Your Sex, starring Olivia Wilde.


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The internationally acclaimed horseman Monty Roberts defied the conventional method of breaking horses and developed his own gentler approach — based on horses' non-verbal language. He died on July 31st at 91. Roberts spoke with Terry Gross in 1997, at the time of his memoir.

Also, jazz critic Martin Johnson reviews Jason Moran’s record of Duke Ellington tracks, and John Powers reviews Tony, the Anthony Bourdain biopic that focuses on his first time working in a kitchen. 


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The internationally acclaimed horseman Monty Roberts defied the conventional method of breaking horses and developed his own gentler approach — based on horses' non-verbal language. He died on July 31st at 91. Roberts spoke with Terry Gross in 1997, at the time of his memoir.

Also, jazz critic Martin Johnson reviews Jason Moran’s record of Duke Ellington tracks, and John Powers reviews Tony, the Anthony Bourdain biopic that focuses on his first time working in a kitchen. 


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Support public media with NPR+ and enjoy perks for over 25 podcasts like this one. This show’s perks include bonus episodes and curated playlists of archive interviews. Learn more at plus.npr.org.

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Claire Vaye Watkins' new novel, 'Yellow Pine,' is about a group of misfits and activists in the Mojave desert, fighting a corporate solar development. Living in the desert is "not for everybody," she tells Terry Gross. Her home, near Death Valley, is staggeringly beautiful and brutal. She talks about growing up around environmental activism, solitude, and her father's escape from the Manson Family.

Also, TV critic David Bianculli reviews the new thriller series ‘Furious,’ starring Emmy Rossum, by ‘New Girl’ creator Elizabeth Meriwether. 

In the audio version of this story, we incorrectly use she/her pronouns for the actor Lola Petticrew. Petticrew uses they/them pronouns.

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Claire Vaye Watkins' new novel, 'Yellow Pine,' is about a group of misfits and activists in the Mojave desert, fighting a corporate solar development. Living in the desert is "not for everybody," she tells Terry Gross. Her home, near Death Valley, is staggeringly beautiful and brutal. She talks about growing up around environmental activism, solitude, and her father's escape from the Manson Family.

Also, TV critic David Bianculli reviews the new thriller series ‘Furious,’ starring Emmy Rossum, by ‘New Girl’ creator Elizabeth Meriwether. 

In the audio version of this story, we incorrectly use she/her pronouns for the actor Lola Petticrew. Petticrew uses they/them pronouns.

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New York Times reporter Eric Lipton discusses his Pulitzer Prize-winning investigations into Trump’s conflicts of interest and whether he’s exploiting the power of the presidency for self-enrichment. Lipton spoke with Terry Gross. 

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New York Times reporter Eric Lipton discusses his Pulitzer Prize-winning investigations into Trump’s conflicts of interest and whether he’s exploiting the power of the presidency for self-enrichment. Lipton spoke with Terry Gross. 

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The fifth and final season of the HBO comedy series ‘Hacks’ is nominated for 24 Emmys, including one for Smart as best actress in a comedy series. The writers “raised the bar every single season," Smart tells guest interviewer Aarti Shahani. They talk about why the show is ending, Smart’s distant relative who narrowly escaped the Salem Witch Trials, and adopting a baby when she was in her 50s. 

Also, book critic Maureen Corrigan reviews the novel ‘Country People,’ by Daniel Mason. 

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The fifth and final season of the HBO comedy series ‘Hacks’ is nominated for 24 Emmys, including one for Smart as best actress in a comedy series. The writers “raised the bar every single season," Smart tells guest interviewer Aarti Shahani. They talk about why the show is ending, Smart’s distant relative who narrowly escaped the Salem Witch Trials, and adopting a baby when she was in her 50s. 

Also, book critic Maureen Corrigan reviews the novel ‘Country People,’ by Daniel Mason. 

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Historian Micki McElya’s book, ‘Liberation Summer,’ revisits September 1968, when three groups of women converged on the Atlantic City boardwalk: feminists protesting the Miss America Pageant, contestants in the first-ever Miss Black America Pageant, and women defending Miss America herself. McElya argues the collision that day created a politics of beauty that runs through the rise of the religious right, the #MeToo era, all the way to today. She spoke with Tonya Mosley. 

Also, TV critic David Bianculli reviews HBO’s ‘Big Bang’ spin-off,  ‘Stuart Fails to Save the Universe.’ 

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Historian Micki McElya’s book, ‘Liberation Summer,’ revisits September 1968, when three groups of women converged on the Atlantic City boardwalk: feminists protesting the Miss America Pageant, contestants in the first-ever Miss Black America Pageant, and women defending Miss America herself. McElya argues the collision that day created a politics of beauty that runs through the rise of the religious right, the #MeToo era, all the way to today. She spoke with Tonya Mosley. 

Also, TV critic David Bianculli reviews HBO’s ‘Big Bang’ spin-off,  ‘Stuart Fails to Save the Universe.’ 

Subscribe to our free weekly newsletter 
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Check out the Fresh Air Archives

Support public media with NPR+ and enjoy perks for over 25 podcasts like this one. This show’s perks include bonus episodes and curated playlists of archive interviews. Learn more at plus.npr.org.

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NPR Privacy Policy